Too Many Days, Too Many Ways To Vote ?

MarineReconDad — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:10:51 GMT

Too many ways, and too many days to vote! Why did we go to "early" voting any way after 200 plus years? Less than half the eleigible voters vote in any election as an average so it's not that it is crowded! And multiple days and ways invite fraud at every turn!

I think the Iraqi's are onto something! As you vote an ultaviolet paint which is invisible and lasts for 7 days is placed on each voter. The voters arm is scanned under ultraviolet light at each precinct, prior to voting to make sure that the person has NOT voted somewhere else earlier in the day!

The choice -- Barack Obama or John McCain -- is the same everywhere. But how Americans actually cast their votes for the next president of the United States varies widely across the country.
While hand-counting traditional paper ballots once reigned, almost 60 percent of the counties in the U.S. now use optical scan voting systems, which read paper ballots that have been marked by voters.
Others will be voting by way of Direct Recording Electronic Systems (DREs), in which voters cast their ballots directly on a computer.
Most states and counties choose one or the other, but about 6 percent of counties in the U.S. use some combination of the two.
About 7 percent of voters, mostly in New York State, will be using lever machines.
Hand-counted paper ballots will be used in 56 counties in the country.
And then there are punchards. The flawed system behind the famed "hanging chads" in Florida eight years ago, punchards are now virtually extinct. "They're only being used at 11 counties up in Idaho," said Kimball Brace, president of Election Data Services, a consulting firm that specializes in elections.
"At one point they were almost 50 percent of the nation. Now hardly anybody is using them."
In 2006, less than 50 percent of votes were cast on optical scan machines. Two years later, they will be used in 41 states.
"Most people have graduated towards the optical scan systems, and certainly that has been the one that is up-and-coming," Brace said.
"It was once thought that the electronic ones were the up-and-coming systems, but then the question came up that there's no backup and they may not accurate."
With so many systems and types of ballots, problems can pop up at the ballot box for many reasons. Sometimes electronic voting systems malfunction, are not well-maintained or don't have paper back-up systems. Sometimes poll workers and voters don't know how to use voting machines.
Even Oprah Winfrey reported having trouble casting her electronic ballot when a touch-screen machine didn't register her vote for president in Illinois on Friday.
"When I voted yesterday electronically, the first vote that you vote for on the ballot is the presidential candidate. It was my first time doing electronic, so I didn't mark the X strong enough, or I held down too long. Because then when I went back to check it, it had not recorded my presidential vote," Oprah said.
Problems like this, and the fear of inaccurate counts, have led counties to turn to optical scan machines. But those aren't flawless, either.
"You still have similar problems on the optical scan systems, but optical scan gives you a piece of paper that you can re-tally and re-count," Brace said. "With the optical scan system, because it uses a piece of paper, American voters tend to know how to file their ballot."
"The other big circumstance with pieces of paper is that there's no way to prevent you from over-voting your ballot. Where you're only supposed to vote for one candidate, you end up marking two candidates. When that happens, unless there's a device in the precinct where you can double-check your ballot, it will not count your vote," he said.
Absentee ballots add another layer of complexity to the vote. They are typically optical scan ballots, but states have a variety of deadlines for submission and dates by which they must be counted.
Some states require absentee ballots to be counted before polls open, some by closing, and some days later.
In Alabama, New York and Utah, absentee ballots must be postmarked by Nov. 3 to count in this election. Voters in West Virginia and Maryland can be postmarked on Nov. 4 and still be counted.
In Minnesota, Massachusetts and Montana they must be received by the close of polls. North Carolina requires absentee ballots to arrive by 5 p.m. on Nov. 3.
"The problem then becomes that the absentee [ballots] haven't really been proofed before people send them in," Brace said. "Its important when voters are casting their absentee ballots to make sure they're being properly filled out."

RE: Too Many Days, Too Many Ways To Vote ?

pinky — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:02:07 GMT

You make some very good points. I agree; our voting is out of control and much too easy to abuse.

RE: Too Many Days, Too Many Ways To Vote ?

morethan1 — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 08:08:29 GMT

To challenge or not to challenge? This is the great question for these are certainly challenging times, and I don't believe we could have found a more challenging way to meet them and move towards better days that the fateful, and inevitably woeful choice that people made to day.

There are more challenges ahead, I don't think the man who won today, or the people who supported him, understand there still exists a greater permanent power than his and their own in 9 men and women who sit on the Supreme Court.

There is no doubt that based on many of President Elect Obama's fanciful proposals that both he and his believers will soon be locking horns and often with these 9 all powerful people entrusted to keep the true faith they look to break, and the power to do it, in a system of checks and balances that has been the curse and bayful reminder that holding the highest office in the land does not in fact place you above the laws that made the land, or to recast the land in one's vain image.

Our Forefathers had what is now an outdated notion on who would be eligible to vote. A notion that was based on a supposition that I don't know for certain has yet to be proved invalid in light of todays historic decision, that not all people can be entrusted to exercise the power of that vote in a responsible and intelligent way.

Few people voted issues on either side of the political divide. Many voted based on what they wanted to believe God would think was right. Many voted based on the skin color of their candidate and little else, and often when there was a little else it was because of what they believed God would think was right and best. While many still simply voted their party, with many admitting who were voting their traditional party, that they sure wished their party had given them a better choice.

The three of us have locked in debate, each in our own unique ways with a wide variety of the democratic left, Obama groupies, rascists, anti-Bush ellements, and the Christian left. Rarely were we able to engage them in issues of substance or at any depth. More often than not it was because they simply had no grasp or understanding of the issues. It reminded me of the kids I went to Jr. Highschool encapsulated in their Led Zepellin versus Kiss Fan Clubs as to who really were the true dieties and masters of Rock n Roll. Most had never played and instrument or could carry a tune, but most were ready to litterally come to blows over defending their choice to idolize one or another.

The lack of a responsible, practical, uniformed approached to collecting the vote from the various machines, ways they are used, and days they are used on sure does create a system that has wide potential to be fraudently abused, manipulated and strategic in some ways. Machines especially those computerized in foreign countries additionally provide a legitimate potential for agent provacatiers to influence results from abroad. Locally IT technicians who work on these often malfunctioning machines certainly provide a legitimate potential conduit for the vote to be manipulated from above.

Yet I think what you and Pinky and I have witnessed time and time again the most flawed thing about our system, that our Forefathers did worry about is who can participate in the system, regardless of whether they see merrit or true responsibility in participating in it.

We make citizens study and read on how to drive a motor vehicle or motorcycle or powered watercraft and verify through goverment inspection that they in fact can. Why? Because use of those things incorrectly or ignorantly or for the wrong reasons in the wrong ways poses a great risk and danger to society as a whole.

Government makes them prove they know how to use these potentially dangerous things.

Could anything be more dangerous than the person whose not just entrusted to safegaurd our way of life, physicall and economic security, and personal liberties and freedoms, let alone be granted the right to unleash enough deadly weaponry as to render the entire planet uninhabitable for generations to come?

I don't think so. Though as long as you are old enough, not a convicted felon, or foreign national, and registered to do so, simply by filing out a form, and can figure out how or with the help of state provided assistance to manipulate the buttons, levers and touchscreens or cards you can cast a ballot to make what might be the most dangerous choice of them all.

To think that choice might and is more often than not made on a persons interpretation of what God wants, or that it's what a good Republican or Democrat would do, or because they were swayed by good looks and charm, or even racial affiliation is just beyond repugnant, and beyond dangerous.

People with no understanding of the fundamentals of economics, government, foreign affairs, military matters, strategic security, international trade, domestic security, education and history, constitutional values and or a higher consideration of nation and we verus me, party, God, race, and sex appeal are being entrusted to make a choice that litterally makes each one culpable and a coconspirator in what could be the end of our nation and way and quality of life, or the very planet itself!

Voters young and old should have to pass a uniform mandatory test on those core items before being granted the privelage to make such a monumental and important decision. Just like those operating motorized potentially deadly and injurous equiptment must. They should have to prove a level of responsibility, integrity and consciousness as to not be tempted to cast a vote in unconsionabe ways.

Feelings was a wonderful song, but a terrible thing to cast a vote on.

I think our society is doomed if we don't enforce higher reasonable standards.

You can't drive a car until you can prove you can through a uniformly described and applied method of inspection and testing.

Yet you can cast a vote that could lead to armogedon itself.

You can callously or indiscretely and just as irresponsibly bring a life into this world through meaningless sex, a deliberate effort to gain government assistance or just by plain honestly wanting one, without ever having to prove either that you actually posess the skills and wherewithall and financial, physical and mental abilities to succesfully raise one.

That's what's wrong with the system. Often poorly informed, poorly educated, sometimes intentionally ignorant people, perpetuating that by birthing even more, succesfully falling and faltering at an even lesser standard at each generation, then granted the right, privelage and responsibility to make a decision I do not think our forefathers would have thought it wise to grant them.

The Bill of Rights, is not a Bill of Entitlements, permissions and excuses.

It's a Bill or Responsibilities that says you want to be at this level, have the things at this level, have the freedom to enjoy those things at this level, well then you also have to perform at this level.

Yet they don't. They don't because they do think it's the Bill of Entitlements, permissions and excuses. A Bill of Rights that sadly a lot of foolish people believe the Supreme Court is going to allow them willy nilly like its a letter to Santa to put more Entitlements, permissions and excuses into, replete with less responsibilities than ever.

Marine Recon Dad, I know you had to certify for the weapons entrusted to you. They were deadly and could do great harm in unskilled or weak minded or angry hands. I know you had to qualify for Forced Recon. They didn't just say you, you and you, over here. They said who wants to prove they can really handle an even bigger responsibility, pass these tests and courses, show us that you can, let us inspect and judge, let us decide if you are who we can trust with our lives in intelligent and responsible ways to all those other lives we are entrusting you to safegaurd.

The machines, like those weapons, are only as effective and safe as the hands they are entrusted into.

There is a saying in business I will flower in language for our censored environment "Excrement in, Excrement out"

Sure came up with a Masterpiece this time huh?

RE: Too Many Days, Too Many Ways To Vote ?

MarineReconDad — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:59:33 GMT

morethan1,that was special! Even with what has happened yesterday, it is important to follow the same rules as in the military during an engagement. If it looks like you are going to be overrun, regroup, stand and take the fight to the enemy! Force him to prove hiself to survive! This is our position staring today! We must keep this guy's feet to the fire in the same way the Democrats have done to President Bush! Everytime he backtracks on a promise, everytime he changes from a stated position during the election! Everytime he acts where he does not act for EVERYONE in the United States, expose him! 55 million Americans DO NOT support this man, Look at the states county by county breakdowns in the states he won! Maryland for example McCain 18 counties,Obama 5 counties and Baltimore City! Virgina, same McCain every county except 5 northern VA Counties and Norfolk City and county which contains Richmond! Ohio, McCain every county except counties around Cleveland! Every state, McCain carries rural and Obama carried big cities? Racial? Baltimore City 89-11 what do you think? But that is history.As the loyal opposition, we MUST hold him to the standard HE has set for HIMSELF! This is no more than has been done to George Bush! God Bless Us and God Bless America!

RE: Too Many Days, Too Many Ways To Vote ?

morethan1 — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:57:25 GMT

Hello MarineReconDad,

This is definitely a broken arrow situation for sure! Sun Tzu “Know thine enemy”

the book like the quote are each ones for the ages.

Here in Florida, 7 strategic counties, out of over 50, voted blue, with the other 43 voting red. Those 7 counties included the biggest population centers. One of the 7 was Miami-Dade where close to 47% of the population is Cuban and have not voted Democrat since Kennedy left them standing without air cover at the Bay of Pigs. In light of President Elect Obama’s statements that he wishes to normalize relations with the Castro brothers and end the decades long embargo there is no real chance that that he won Miami-Dade let alone won it with a 14% margin. Nobody I talked to today in the several exile communities in South Florida today had any clue who on earth voted for Obama, blacks at 32% of the population even teamed with the youth of the 21% percent Caucasian/Non Cuban Latin Caucasians could not have added up to a 64% grouping the polls claimed. The angriest and bitterest believe it or not is the sizable Russian community in South Beach. They were all on their cell phones booking air flights back to Moscow!

If you did a county by county study in exacting detail you would see that those population centers were strategically targeted. Not for ethnology reasons, but for technology reasons. Electronic voting machines are likely to be found in every traditional Red state where population centers suddenly went dramatically blue and inexplicably blue.

There lurks an incredible potential for danger in President Elect Obama. The nation is deeply indebt, to the tune of 13 trillion dollars. The handful of banks that are well capitalized at first glance are simply sitting on huge amounts of never been circulated Federal Reserve money on loan. Lending it and releasing it leads to a hyper inflationary spiral with every dollar sent into circulation becoming monetized. Each step up the hyper inflationary ladder endangers our one trump card and advantage over the other broke nations of the world. OPEC will only sell oil for U.S. Dollars, the more other nations have to print off their currency to buy ours the stronger our dollar becomes. The reverse in lending that never circulated money leads to the opposite direction and the potential death knell of an increasingly worthless U.S. Dollar being rejected by OPEC in favor or Euros or Yen forcing us to print increasingly worthless currencies to buy the chosen more valuable one, sending hyper inflation through the rough.

Simply put President Elect Obama has no bullets for his guns. He does have a strategy that brought him to the dance though he has learned to use effectively well. It’s one Hitler used to maximum advantage, point fingers and blame, incite blind prejudice and continued allegiance by providing a circus even if it lacks bread.

There in lies the great danger, who will his accusatory finger fall upon next?

In the movie Wall Street the mantra of ‘Follow the Money’ would have led to good reconnaissance. Someone who wanted to reconnoiter today would be better served “Following the Technology”, well if they thought like Sun Tzu. President Elect Obama’s stated agenda is just that “Stated” the real answers come from following that trail. There are always common threats on Boards of Directors, often there will be one or two men who sit on one, who sit on several others, even ones that appear to be their competitors.

It is in my humble opinion it is a broken arrow, there are no defensible perimeters. The head of the visible column is a toothless paper tiger. It’s all bravado, bluff and swagger, some hidden hand holds the dagger.

By this time next year the tigers finger will likely be already in play. Show trials of those accused embezzlers will start to weed out some grouping of peoples for anger to be vented. It will be what it has been so far, a feint.

There is a lot more reconnoitering still needing to be done, Sun Tzu was a Master for he understood the most imperative thing, the mind as is intelligence it the greatest weapon at a true warriors disposal. The feint is designed to unbalance and disinformation dissemination. In some conflicts political solutions are truly not optional.

Some food for reflective thought, broken arrows bring the ordinance right down on top those being besieged too, and in that there above all lays the challenge, that first shot might be the last.

No wonder the Ruskies were so miffed.